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Transcript: 223- Charlie P- Step 5 of Alcoholics Anonymous

223- Charlie P- Step 5 of Alcoholics Anonymous

Charlie P 00:00

because when I say we looked at our part, the book didn't say that the book says setting aside the other person entirely. We resolutely looked for our own mistakes

John M 00:15

what Hello friends of Bill Debbie and other friends you have landed on sober speak. My name is John M. I am an alcoholic. And we are glad you're all here, especially newcomers, newcomers that is both to recovery as a whole, and newcomers to this podcast. Sober speak is a podcast about recovery centered around the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. My job here on sober speak is simple. My job is to provide a platform to the amazing stories of recovery all around us. Consider silver speak, if you will, your meeting between meetings. Please remember, we do not speak for a or any 12 Step community. We represent only ourselves. We are here to share our experience, strength and hope with those who wish to come along for the ride. Take what you want, and leave the rest at the curb for the trash man to pick up. Studio. Texas was the voice of Mr. Charlie so

John M 01:43

first things first, this episode is brought to you, David, girl

John M 01:59

you know what? David and Gerhard and Shruti and Kate Murray and anonymous did well let me feel Yeah, they went to our website, sober They clicked on that little yeller donate tab, and they made a contribution. So thank you once again, Jim, and Jane, and David and Gerhard and Trudy, Kate Murray and anonymous. This episode is coming right out to humans. And you're going to so much enjoy this episode with Mr. Charlie P and buen momento. I, John M, just another Bozo on the bus will indeed be the chair person for this meeting between meetings. And I am truly honored and privileged to serve all of you listening in. So take a seat, if you will, around this virtual table. And let's get started. Remember, no matter where you are, or what your past looks like, you are welcome here. It is an open table to all and we are so glad that you have joined us. So I was reading through our super secret Facebook group this week, and I noticed a post from a friend Mr. Nelson. And he was talking about a meeting that I was actually in and Nelson wrote in the secret Facebook group he said today at the nooner David G. And many of you are familiar with David D. G, he was actually chairing the meeting there I was in or we were all in, I should say. He said today at the nooner David G talked about the importance of restraint of pen and tongue. And to today's daily reflections speaks of pause, a double header, Nelson says, We pause and ask. And then he puts a quote in there from The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous page 87. It says, as we go through the day, we pause when agitated or doubtful, and ask for the right thought or action. Do you need to pause today? Do I need to pause today and ask for the right thought or action. Let me read that again. Because I think is very powerful. It says on page 87. As we go through the day we pause when agitated or doubtful or you agitated or doubtful today and ask for the right thought or action. Once again. That's page 87 Thank you so much Nelson for putting that in the super secret Facebook group and you know as I'm kind of scrolling through The Facebook group here, there are, oh gosh has tons of birthdays. And I don't want to say one because I'm afraid I may. I don't want to leave anybody out. But there's tons of birthdays, anniversaries, lots of celebrations, people with people with, you know, six months, people with a year people with multiple years, 3040 50 years and all kinds of folks in here. And then there was one in here, I was looking at this the other day, this got a lot of reaction, all the controversial stuff gets reaction, you know,

John M 05:38

you know, it's like they always say, they don't report on the number of number of planes that landed safely at the airport. It's just the ones that crash and burn. But nonetheless, James posted in here and he said, My girlfriend's ex sponsor is smoking, CBD. She asked me my opinion on it. And I says, it still changes the way you feel. What are your thoughts? And he got all kinds of comments, and I'm not going to go through them. Right. But it's just, you know, I guess it's a place to kind of sit down, we, we wouldn't talk about that. In in a meeting, generally speaking, you know. And as all of Earl, most of you know, he has no opinion on outside issues. However, the group members have plenty of opinions, outside issues. And some of that stuff's in here. And then there's all kinds of conferences and zoom meetings and all that sort of stuff. And I do get asked a lot of times, hey, where can I find a Zoom meeting? And if you come on in here into the Facebook group, by the way, you're wondering, how do we get in that Facebook group? Well, you go to the Facebook applicatio. And you look up sober speak, secret group you ask for and mushy own, and we will get you in there. It's pretty simple. But that's it. I just wanted to read that what Nelson had put in there. And now we're going to go into some a little bit of an introduction for Mr. Charlie. So Charlie, we have done several episodes with him in the past. This is his fifth episode, I believe that we have actually done and this one is called we launch into action. And it's regarding the fifth step. And or at least that's kind of where we start. And in this particular episode, Charlie talks about how to use the book as a spiritual guide, when turning statements into questions, surely warns against minimizing someone else's behavior, or excuse me, minimizing someone else's experience. And my favorite quote, from our time together, as Charlie says, If I'm going to be free, the problems got to be me. Like that. We talked about the fist step promises on page 75, the big book and much, much more, and I'm not going to say a lot, but I will say this. If you're out there, and you can throw up a little extra prayer for Mr. Charlie, it would be appreciated. And as some other point, I'll probably expand on that a little bit more or let Charlie do it. But nonetheless, stay tuned or not. Stay tuned. Enjoy this episode. And we will have plenty Oh, listener feedback on the end of this episode. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, Charlie, P. Okay, everybody. So today, we are sitting here. Uno mas tiempo one more time. We're Mr. Charlie P. And we're kind of taking a slow walk through the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous and the steps so, Charlie, why don't you go ahead, introduce yourself. Give your sobriety date if you wish, and then tell people where you are in this great land of ours.

Charlie P 09:22

Okay. Hi, John. Good to see you. Again. I'm I'm Charlie. I'm very grateful alcoholic. I'm in Austin, Texas. My whole group is the primary purpose group. Alcoholics Anonymous. We meet live on Tuesday nights at 2701 South Lamar 7:30pm Come see us if you're ever in Austin. A lot of people want and, and then we also meet on zoom on Wednesday nights. I'm just gonna say it the Zoom information is 630577473 7:30pm little time on Wednesday nights, and we've been getting several 100 people for that meeting. So, and we're in a very exciting part of the book, we're starting doctor's opinion. So.

John M 10:13

And if somebody comes into that meeting and wants to kind of like meet you, so to speak, I know I've had a couple people contact me, right, and they wondered your name and how to contact you, and all that kind of stuff. But if somebody is in that meeting, they get, how, what do they do raise their hand on, like a zoom thing.

Charlie P 10:29

Anything is fun. I mean, you can come with to speak before the meeting. After the meeting, you can, you know, pop up in the chat during the meeting. I mean, there's a lot of things but we get, we have people literally from all over the world that don't have access to a solution based big book study and US temp workers type format. And at least literally people from New Zealand, and South Africa and Australia, and people in Europe are staying up till one two o'clock in the morning, you know, to to get access some people in Abu Dhabi getting up at 5am, you know, to be able to access the solution. My My belief is that real alcoholics are drawn to real solution. Hopefully, that's what you'll hear. Oh, my gosh, before we go any further, you know, he talked about getting I've had some very good conversations with people. But I made the mistake of going on and listen, if he lands on the podcasts, and I was like, oh my god, I have this delusion that my voice is only a little bit bad. I listen to a few lines, one of those workshops now. It was from a while back, but I was like, oh my god, that is just awful. So here's what I apologize up front. About as good as it gets. Please listen for content and not tone and clarity. But yeah,

John M 12:00

it's funny you say that because I just got back from a meeting myself. And somebody came up to me after the meeting, and they said, Hey, I was just listening to you. Our your podcast in the car on the way over, it was really a great episode. So who are you listening to? They go, Oh, I can't remember the name. But it's that guy's got a really gravelly voice. Are you talking about Charlie v you. So the content is great.

Charlie P 12:30

They told me if they cut down on any more, I could lose my voice. And so I can still sell stuff. And I can still do a talks like this sponsored. So we're just going to see how it goes. in

John M 12:44

Dade County, just real quick, because we always have new people that are joining in you know, and in terms of your your voice that you recently had some throat surgery there.

Charlie P 12:55

But earlier in the year, it didn't go super well. Just some lasers and voice issues. Since I was 28. I was grabbed. And I'm not saying this is what did it because I also drank a lot of cheap whiskey and inhaled a lot of stuff. But I was also grabbed by the throat cop one time that I think we had a different opinion and my mouth was open at the time it happened you can say. But since 2012, we've been doing procedures and examinations and instrument thank God for this job search. So just keep me walking and talking. And you know, we'll be fine.

John M 13:44

So you had a little bit of a different opinion than that officer.


Once again.

John M 13:51

Alright. Okay, so last time we left him by the way, if you all have not her, Charlie in the past, just in case, this is the first time you're hearing him. He's got at least four other episodes. Go back through my episode, you look for Charlie P. And we're kinda we started off with a story and now we're kind of taking a slow walk through the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous. It's basically like a big book workshop. Would you call that literally that

Charlie P 14:23

step workshop through the big book and, you know, I, I, I've been, I've heard the term, big book Thumper. I've heard big book technician, I'm not offended by either of those terms. I do like to think of myself as a step worker, you know, in in, in talks and in my personal life loses all its value if it becomes theory, you know, if we're not if I'm if I'm if I get to the point where I'm saying Take my advice, I'm not using it Then it when a becomes theory, it loses its heart. But I do a lot of step work in my mastermind. It's March 22. From 1985. We find ourselves today, dark period of the year, October 28. My wife Katie pain, crossed over into 37 years of sobriety. So there's a five month period of the year where my wife has a year. I avoid sobriety countdowns during that period.

John M 15:37

That's funny.

Charlie P 15:39

She likes to say what I'm striving to stick around for about five more months, and it'll make a lot more sense to you.

John M 15:47

And we're gonna be recording, I've got her set to record sometime in December, I can't remember exactly. But I'm looking forward again,

Charlie P 15:54

brace yourself. She's like getting a drink from a firehouse.

John M 15:58

That's what I understand. I really look forward to talking to her, though. Well,

Charlie P 16:03

you know, we've been going through the steps. And I really Pound those pages 60 to 63 a month, my biggest movement that took place. And my 17th year of sobriety was a new understanding of the third step and the way it's presented in page 6263. And what I call the self peace. That's what I've been visiting at depth and how we get to that. And then what were changes what we, if I'm not taking the lead to Australia, it changes what we take into inventory. Yeah, my first third step was just a bunch of churchy talk. And my first inventory was just kind of a confession of people I was bad at stuff I felt bad about. That's right. Not terrible, but not what I see. Now when I look at the book, and we went over that self piece with some real depth, and go back and listen to some of that, because that's what we carry in. The fourth tip, we're now we're looking for manifestations of in the way they show up. And we got through that, at the end of last week, where it says, We hope you're now convinced that God can remove whatever self will has blocked you off. So that's where we find ourselves, we made a decision, an inventory of our grocery handicaps, we've made a good beginning. And we found that just some big chunks of truth about ourselves. So we said last time that we were going to start off with into extra

John M 17:45

inaction in for those of you. So if you're driving, obviously, you don't be doing this. But for those of you reading along at home, I would highly suggest you get out a big book there and make some markup, take some notes, whatever you need to do. In fact, Charlie, I want to let you know that. I can't remember if I've said this in one of the other episodes that we've recorded or not. But at one point, you were talking about a question or a comment that had occurred in the big book. And the first part is where we're talking about a could have been anything it could have been, you know, what about a real alcohol? Or actually, no, no, let me take it back. It was some sort of self reflection type of question. And use pause. And you said, when you when you talked about that you said, and right out here, in next to this line in my big book. I have the question right now. Am I

Charlie P 18:47

right? QUESTION Mark, we believe strongly? Yeah, go ahead.

John M 18:51

Weigh in ever since you said that. It's kind of an I've been through other studies before where I think they call it inductive study or something like that. I've done the same thing with the Bible for me personally in the past. And but whenever you did that, it made me think about these little lines that I hear in the big book, not only a meetings, but when I read it on my own, and it's important to pause and reflect and ask myself what that actually means to me. And you were gonna say,

Charlie P 19:23

We believe strongly and I come from done Prince Mark Houston lineage and and Mark believes strongly in turning statements into questions in the book, when you come to a statement like that, which is the first requirement is that we are being convinced it was on 64 At the beginning of the inventory process, where we came across that question where it said, being convinced itself manifested in various ways is what defeated us. Well, that's not always a fair assumption to make about body walking through the doors bay or in their step work process. So I have to ask you Mr. Mill's, the self showed up in various ways, or do I think I just had a drinking problem?

John M 20:08

Yeah, the the the meeting that I just got got back from what I was telling you about the the, the topic was that line in the book where it says, you know, God either is or isn't either He's everything or nothing at all right. And that's one of those. I mean, that's a showstopper, especially for me is when I, you know, I was first in Alcoholics Anonymous, I'm like, you know, it's pretty strong language. But I think the important part is this, stop there, pause and ask myself, you know, do I believe that God is everything? You know, do I believe that he's everything, and just kind of, you know, filter that through my own perception of the God of my understanding, and you know, kind of take it from there. The day

Charlie P 20:53

that became real to me. I was well into sobriety. And that was in the face of a huge collapse of my professional world. And I was in trouble personally, and I was in my late teens and early, and Katie slug, I didn't raise her in hand, for some reason, that day, that Latin, sunk to a new level, or ascended to a new level, we could say, in four years, I couldn't even describe the experience without getting emotional. Because, you know, when, when that when I see that the power of God moving in my life, or in my heart, it's like, wow, that was, you know, that was just chatter for so long. And all of a sudden, it's like, man, because if we have been taken the third step, to the extent that it requires us to, I've realized that my on my own power is not going to get the job, you know, and in the absence of God, or some power, whatever you call it, and one of the things I said before I forget to say it, is that there's a lot of spiritual paths that people may follow. And, and whether it's Eastern Western, Native American, you know, wherever you find, there's a lot of paths, you know, but what we're trying to do is try to do those things along with, not instead up. And so what we're trying to do in a step process is set a basis of spiritual approach when it says, it's a design for living, it really works. It really is, you know, when practiced, according to the clear cut directions, laid out in the book, one of the biggest problems, the book is on page 29, where it says further on clear cut directions are given showing how we recover quiet, you know, thank you for that, because the kind of trouble was in, I need clear cut directions. And, you know, we've got so much ground to cover, but it's kind of funny. Trying to do them to action today reminds you I went to a conference one time in Florida, we're speaking and it was called chapters in recovery, and great group of people, but rather than give everybody a step, like they did the Woodstock type of Congresses, they gave everybody a Chapter, you know, and so Katie had, I think Katie had how it works, and I had into action. And you know, step one is pretty much in the doctor's opinion and the first 44 pages of the book and then step two, we agnostics, and that sort of thing. And then step three, takes place on page 60. Then we do step four, in the rest of how it works. Got up to talk at tech conferences in Florida and so I've got the champion, which means I have 55 minutes to sum up the steps 567 The entire Amanda's process and eight nine and then the spot checking inventory and step evening review morning where I hope we don't run out of anything to talk about

John M 24:28

I want to tell you real quick before going on before I forget to say this, you know, my wife, the lovely Mrs. In what she does, is after these after I record these episodes, and before I'm about to publish one we have a she does the the transcripts. And so this last couple of weeks, she's been looking at your transcript. And she's been to and so she not only looks at the transcript, but she goes through Make sure that you know all the words arise. So she listens to you at the same time. And she has become a Charlie P fan. And she's never met you. And when I was coming up here today to record you, she goes, who you're recording with Charlie? Oh, well tell Charlie P. I said, Hello. That's why you want to come here and meet him? Well, not right now. But I'll maybe I'll come up afterwards, or whatever the case may be.

Charlie P 25:25

Yeah, thank God for people with low standards, you know.

John M 25:32

Let me take a little break here, we'll go I will be we will be continuing our conversation with Charlie P in just a moment, just a reminder, you are listening to sober speak. And you can find us on the worldwide web at Debbie Debbie. Debbie does sober There, you can also find the donate button on our website you can use if and only if the spirit moves you to do such please keep in mind this is a podcast funded by you the listener, and we are self supporting through our own contributions. All right. Now back to Mr. Charlie PR. So in to action, like you said, there is chock full of nuts. We're not gonna run out of things to talk about the Where do you want to start with that?

Charlie P 26:15

Well, let's start with chocolate says, I haven't made our personal inventory. What and

John M 26:21

by the way, for those of you reading along at home, just in case you don't know where this is. This is Chapter Six is called into action. And it is on page 72.

Charlie P 26:32

I'm sorry, I have to point out to a sponsee. One time that we don't have a chapter called into thinking. That's right. But we're just because it here's a question, what have we been trying to do here? And it says, I haven't made our personal inventory. What shall we do about it, we have been trying to want to get a new attitude to a new relationship with our Creator, and three to discover the obstacles in our path.

John M 27:02

Wow, we could spend an hour on each one of those three points, right there is. So so so let's go through how you would possibly do that when you're actually studying the book by turning a statement into a question. So

Charlie P 27:19

bad? Well see, we've done so much work up to now. And we're rolling into here's the fifth step in recovery, I'm not going to be able to spend a tremendous amount of time on it. One of the things I like it says, we've admitted certain defects when in our in our inventory. And mainly in the fourth column or inventory. We've seen it the way I do it. I'm sure how I say I'm an entirely different angle business. I'm trying to point out to people with different perspective, that sort of thing. And because that one of the things that what if the problem itself, what are the things that happens in the inventory process isn't the fourth column I see Oh, my God, my take is so self centered, you know, and but I have to have the, my buddy Mike Hill, called me a minute ago, while we were trying to talk, I go to him for this stuff, because I can handle these different perspectives all day long. But I'm blind to it and myself. And I've outgrown and I'll go to some danubia friends of mine, and they'll hand it right back to me where you go? Well, let's try to look at this from a different perspective. And so it says these things are about to be we've ascertained in a rough way, what the trouble is really well is supposed to be self. And when we're already beginning of the third step, is a fair question about what do you mean by that? And what do you want me to do, and then we roll through what it means and what we're doing. And we come out of nowhere with our inventory. It's funny because it says, this requires extra, which when completed will mean we've admitted to God to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our defects. This brings us to the fifth step in a program of recovery. Well, we got to move here, but I mean, whole of this big two pages, talks about why we're going to do them tour and who we're going to do it with, and what kind of qualities we're going to look for him and it says this difficult, perhaps especially talking to somebody else about our defects, we think we've done well enough, admit them to ourselves. There is doubt about that. And this is a big line that I carry through my whole sobriety. It says in actual practice, we usually find a solitary self appraisal insufficient. I call it my sponsor at one time and I said, you know, this happened to me and but I think I'm doing pretty good and it goes well, I'd be careful about grading my own papers. You know, so We got to go further. And why? Well, the best reason for us if we skipped this final step, we will come drink.

John M 30:08

So I think that's worth repeating again. And I have a highlighted in my book as well. It says the best reason, but why do we have to do this? Well, the best reason first, if we skip this vital step, we may not overcome drinking.

Charlie P 30:29

Right? You roll the dice on that one. So, you know, and try to avoid this Nirvana, trying to avoid this humbling experience, they've tried to turn to easier methods. So he talks about what happens and find that. Now, here's the thing. When we get no, I love this paragraph on page 73. Because just like the devil mats on page 52, can apply to the eye sobriety. I can also be a big phony in recovery. And it's why he talks about this, we talked about the LAN on page 73 A lot, where it says A must enjoy a certain reputation, but knows in his heart, he doesn't deserve it. And when I don't know that we know, I mean, I try not to hold myself up too high. So you won't be disappointed. If you have to take a close look at me. A lot of us don't hold up that well. But you know, one of my favorite quotes is that God uses broken people to do his work. Because that's all he has to work with. But one time I want to get the chip to chip and I was given it to him. And I was up at this big treatment center where we had alumni meeting, big night. And the next day, I'm in the sprint store. And I have to really get prayed up before I go in the sprint store. This was a bad day. And the guy I mean, the guy behind the counter, he goes back into the back of the room. Turning this guy's looking at me kind of funny. Man or get me kind of worked up. And he looks at me and grins, right? And he goes, Do you see me get my 90 Day chip last night? Oh, what you just saw was not the principles. If you stick around, you'll see what active 10 step looks like. But you know, skipping on down. It's it talks about how it says we must be entirely honest with somebody, I'm going to get through this really fast read these papers though, study them, like it's a test, you know, because we've talked about how we're dishonest with counselors, and psychiatrists. And then when you turn to 74, it says rightly and naturally we think well before we choose the person or persons with him to take this intimate, confidential step. Now, here's a very interesting line that I gave him. It says, those of us belonging to a religious denomination, which requires confession last, and of course want to go to the properly appointed authority, whose duty it is to receive it, that line was added in the original manuscript under review, and save the lives of millions of Catholic alcoholics. Because the Catholic Church was about to drop the hammer on Oxford. And they were not at all down with lay people here in confession, as they looked at it. And so looking at it, just say insert one little line here. And and it says, those of us belong into a religious denomination, which requires confession. Last, and of course, we'll want to go to the proper employment authority who's doing it is receiving both. Now everything's okay. You know, and we can keep going. But it says that we don't have any religious connection as telling us who we want to do it with. And sometimes we run into people who don't understand. We don't want to wait. We want to be sure we find the right person. Here's an interesting line. Well, this is not the stuff I thought we were going to talk about today. But, you know, when I'm doing inventory, sometimes I got to look at who's going to be helped, you know, and I need to make sure that I don't you know if somebody has a resentment at my wife, I'm probably not the guy to share it with, you know, or because it says, We have no right to save our skin at another person's expense. Have you ever had to come up and say how you man's because I used to think you were just a real piece of chalk and talk trash about you Now I'm sorry, I don't feel that way you want to go? Oh, thanks a lot. I'm glad you feel better. I gotta go right image

Charlie P 35:12

says such parts of our story, we tell the someone who will understand yet be unaffected. There's a lot of times where if I want to share a certain piece of meat, I need to make sure sometimes it's probably you probably might want to talk to somebody else about that piece. Because I'm not sure I can be objective about that little piece of inventory right there. Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure. And look at the rule. The rule is, we must be hard on ourselves, but always consider above. And this addresses to me, I'm going to get this written in my book, this addresses whether when to do so would injure them or others. Others does not include me. There's people that looks back like well, it would injure me to say this, now that that didn't fit the rule. The rule is going to be hard on ourselves, but considerate of others.

John M 36:15

Oh, yeah, yeah, that does make sense. And that's why, you know, you hear about it all the time. You know, people that come into the rooms, and they look up at the wall, they see the amends, and they start going making amends real quickly, you know, girlfriends, or whatever the case may be, or old boyfriends. And the motives are not right. And that's why it's best to sometimes slow people down and just say, Hey, are you being considerate of others and hard on yourself?

Charlie P 36:43

Yeah. And so do you want your wife to hear you making amends to ex girlfriends? Which is fine, we want to clean stuff up. But what if your family members are sitting there going? When's he going to get around to us? And here's the three things we look for somebody is going to hear the inventory, it's important that he lists the bottom of 74. It's important that he one be able to keep a confidence to that he fully understand and approve what we're driving. And three, that he won't try not to change our plan. I don't want to go to somebody that says, Oh, you don't need all this water under the bridge. You know, you're this big. So what do

John M 37:31

you think? You know what, I'm just now noticing that for the first time, I've heard the other part, but he will not try to change our plan. What do you think it means by that?

Charlie P 37:40

Well, if you're involved in the process that requires awareness, talking to somebody else about it, going out and making amends for it. And somebody says, Oh, you know, you're a good guy, when you're not drinking, just you know, that all that stuff is water under the bridge, you got enough said, we call it a you know, it's really important that I get unblocked here.

John M 38:08

You're right, like in other words, you don't want to have your mom giving you advice on following through this plan. Mom will say don't worry about it, Johnny,

Charlie P 38:18

is fine. Right? When it was just right into the next paragraph. It says, We've written m joy. We're preparing for a long talk. And here's a question of marketing with AdWords is we explained to our partner, what we're about to do, and why do we have to do it? He goes, what are we about to do? And why do we have to do it now? What's your answer? We're trying to remember at the end of the fourth sentence says, We want to face and be rid of the things that are blocking us from this power. The thing we've admitted in the third step is our only shot. And in the third step, it says, stay close to Him and perform His work well. Well, I can't stay close to him till I get close to him. I can't get close to him when I'm blocked. So what we're going to try to do in this process is at least remove a level what's blocking me that I can have some flow of power in between me and this power that I've admitted as the only shot I've got. Now, here it comes. It's funny, most of the instructions for the fifth step are contained in the fourth step, which tell us what we're going to look for and that sort of thing. But it's funny because it says, Now there is one little piece here which says we put in because really the instructions are really short. It is this whole paragraph here it says we pocket our pride and go to it. illuminating every twist of character, every dark cranny of the path. Well, that's pretty short, you know. But one time, I was talking to a guy that I really admire Scott Hill from history from Nashvillians. And he may be back in Texas, but he was in Florida for a while. But I call him up more or less. And, you know, I'm pretty clear on the process was laid out in the book. I've seen where we look at our resentments and our fears, and, and our manifestation itself when the sexual instinct is around. What are some, where's the deepest, darkest secrets? You know, where's the thing is that, you know, they say, tell me the worst thing you ever did? Or sometimes they'll say, Well, you know, wow, what's the thing you've already decided? You're not going to tell me? You know, that sort of thing. Thank you. So well, it gets into step. And as quantity goes, let's see what it says. illuminating, which means scanning line upon every twist of character, every dark cranny of the path. So to me, this is where we address the ticket to the grave stuff. And sometimes, we'll address it on the front end, like we were talking about golf. Yeah, what's the thing you've already decided? You're not going to tell me? Sometimes I'll do it in the middle. Sometimes I'll do it very Yeah. And where one of my favorite boys up, we did a heck of a mentor. One time and night in resentment image where we talked about it a lot in the earlier recording, so that the fourth column and where have we been selfish, dishonest, self seeking and frightened. My favorite thing to hear when I guess going over a resentment like that is when they see it from another perspective, when they go, Oh, God. I never thought about that for a minute. And that's where the magic happens. Where, over and over again, I can't tell you how many times to me and people I worked with, come into this process with a resentment. Seeing it from an entirely different angle, looked at our own mistakes, and you go, and you come out the other end with an amends to go back. And that's where the freedom is in this vigorous course of action.

John M 42:24

So let me stop you there real quick, because, you know, I just want to talk about this line, because, you know, we say it. But I know that when I was first going through this process, and I'm thinking about this from the newcomer coming into the program now, and there's you know, a lot of people get up to this point, and then they'll kind of back off but the line is, we pocket our pride, we go to it that fifth step, illuminating every twist of character, every dark cranny of the past No, those are words on a on a page here. But I know that a lot of people get a little bit worried at this point. And they think to themselves, I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I want to do this. I know what's going on in my head here. I know these thoughts. I know what I've done in the past. I'm not sure if I want to share this with anybody. Take me through some of your experience when you've had guys that get to that point.

Charlie P 43:25

That's why I think it's so important that it's that we acknowledge the presence of God. In this process. Every time I hear a mentor a prayer a prayer our way into the space prayer way out of it at the end of it. I'm not saying anybody's gonna do that. But it says but on on power, I might not be able to do it. You know, but if I'm surrendered and so sometimes that's what happened with with my boy. At the end of it, he finished his piece of paper they brought brought in and and I said it we've gone over his resentments and its fears and sexual stuff. That sort of thing. And I said, is that it? He goes yeah, yep, that's it. That's everything. Okay, he goes, Yeah, that's nothing. You have to want to turn away it goes, nope, no. And, you know, in the tents sequences will, it promises us intuition by this point, and sometimes things coming? I just sense that that one needs, you know, and as well, it's funny, because, you know, I know in Miami, some of the stuff I felt the worst about the stuff that centered around this, you know, or without it around that and that's the stuff I felt most shame about. And but I wasn't going to talk about it when it says we hung on to the worst items in stock, just like the stuff does. If we're trying to get unblocked. My ego will tell me hang on to the worst stuff. And that's the stuff that blocked me the most You know? So I said that he goes, there's a heavy pause, and he goes, there's something else has it? Okay, you know, what is it, and he talked about something. And the other thing you got to do be careful that when you're hearing joy is not to minimize these people's experience. Because what might be a blip on my Raiders radar screen can be a deep source of shame and blockage for somebody else. So even though it seems consoling, I don't think it's freeing to say, oh, that's nothing. I used to do that, you know, are him because I gotta let him have his experience with what's blocked now. And so he said, There's something else, okay. And he talked about, and then he goes, Okay, there's something else. And he talks about that for a while, and we went a little deeper. And so he left and gave him the instructions for what comes after this. And 10 minutes later, my phone rings he goes, there's one more thing I don't want to leave this. I'm done. But you know, there's a lot of instructions about how to here there was a time when we may not get out of the 10 steps. But there was a time when I thought my job as a sponsor here in your fifth step was to sit there and listen to you read your foresta. And I've been on both sides of that. When the guy just sat there, listen to me read the columns on an inventory. Nice thing. And now, I take a really active role in hearing inventory. And because what it says well affect finding and effect facing mission, I have come to believe that my job, his job is the fact facing. And my job is the fact finding, because he may not be able to see it from an entirely different perspective. So a lot of times my job is to get I'm like a news reporter going okay, this was your dad, you know, how was the situation, how many kids in your family, what was going on at start shaping the story, and he will hear yourself intuitively saying stuff that maybe you've never said to anybody else at another inventory. But when I start trying to show it to him from a different angle, in my mind when he said, I've got to have somebody that's still taking me to? Where did I set the ball rolling? Where did I make decisions based on self that later placed me in a position to be armed? I get talks about on page 61? You know, and what's an entirely different angle sometimes, when they're reading? And I'm thinking I'm going to tell him different things. The first one I think about is what about their? Or about the person in column? You know, how would they tell the story? You know, where they go, I just woke up one day and thought, what can I do to Jack with Charlie today? And sometimes, when you get him to see it from or sometimes or Well, let me ask you this, because we only we got to watch out for self righteousness. But you know, and sometimes I go, this, this resentment you have,

Charlie P 48:25

here's what are you mad at? Here's what they did, here's how it affected you. Now, you've done the segment exercise? Is it possible that there's anybody out in the world that would have this exact same four column inventory? Except your name, column one? And I've seen guys go, Oh, my God. Yeah. A lot. You know, it's just, I happen to find myself on the rock right side of it on this one? So, you know, yeah,

John M 48:57

I've been in a lot of very uncomfortable situations where I what conversations I should say, where people haven't looked at it from that entirely different angle. And then you ask the question, and I use that one a lot as well, like, Well, okay, so I understand what you're saying, what would they say about this particular situation? And then you get them to describe that and it always, you know, somebody else has always got a little bit of a different angle on it right there.

Charlie P 49:25

We like to say, if I'm going to be free, the problems got to be made. So I went to a meeting this morning, where I had to keep my mouth shut, because the topic for the meeting was my part. And if there's a phrase I'd like taken out of a, it would be the phrase my part because that still leaves me in a shame in a victim mentality. We're going to do a little work class and we're going to wind up back at this victim mentality. Because when I say we looked in our part book didn't say that The book says setting aside the other person entirely, we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Because if we're looking at my part, and their part, what is it, it assumes that they have a part. And it also assumes that I'm qualified to find the parts that my my parts can be little bit. So I do a lot of that in. So if we're looking for manifestations of so in a resentment inventory we see in the fourth column, and then the fear inventory, we look at those says, failure of, of self, isn't it because Self Reliance failed. So I'm looking at an affair, and how it was self reliance, and where, you know, that sort of thing. And what's a different way, the new basis of trusting and relying on our Creator. And then in the SEC symmetry, it gives us those nine questions to look at it. And when it when it says what should we have done? It's not just watching a slap whether, you know, sometimes it's, you know, we're gonna take a little deeper dive than that. And I would rather do an in depth approach to your five hot burner resentments then go all the way back to Tamia in the second grade, you know, it's like, now we're going to be thorough. There are times where I go, Oh, are you seeing the pattern here? And they're like, yes. And I'm like, Are there any of these resentments that are significantly different from these? Well, this one is okay, let's do that one, and that sort of thing. And the fifth step promises, because after we, it says, right after that word of every dark cranny, that comes the fifth step promises, it says, once we've taken this step, withholding nothing, we are delighted, we can look for old and so this How about these promises, we can look the world and we can be alone at perfect peace and ease. Our fears fall from us, and even say that we work on them and diminish them, they start to fall from us, we become gods, we begin, here's a huge one, we begin to feel the nearness of our Creator, that we may have had certain spiritual beliefs. Now we begin to have a spiritual experience. The feeling that the drink problem has disappeared will often come strolling. We feel we're on the broad highway, walking hand in hand with the universe. So many people stop right here. You know, in fact, one time, in my first period of sobriety, I walked right, if you said what step beyond I would, I would say I want to step six, step six. And what that generally means is, the last thing I did any work on was five, because you really don't spend a lot of time on Sixth, we'll talk about it. In the next book. There's a huge piece of work here at the bottom of page 75. That used to call the hour after the fifth step. It's not, it's the hour at the end of the fifth step. And that's it. I tell guys, I go do not schedule dinner with your family asked for after we do this inventory, because you're not finished, until you do this last paragraph. And Mark Houston turned this into enormous piece of work for me work because it says returning home, we find a place where we can be quiet for an hour. Until guys, that's a 60 minute hour we're talking about and carefully reviewing what we have done. We thank God, here's a prayer, we thank God from the bottom of our heart that we know in better directions taking this book down from our shelf, we turn to the pages. And now I'm not exactly sure why my books on the shelf, if I've just done inventory. But I tell my guys, go home, put your book up on the shelf, take him down his idea that it's a ridiculous exercise, and I require it, you know, but what it says, but here's the thing.

Charlie P 54:21

This is just goofing around during this review prayer, man. Let me I want to finish with this last thing. Carefully reading the first five proposals and often the side of that I've written consider all the implications. So when we when we come for the consumer, I have to go back and ask myself, do I believe I'm bodily and mentally different from ourselves? Am I do I have a physical allergy coupled with a mental obsession? Do I understand what it means to me and alcohol? I feel that I'm also a victim of the mental blank spot if I'm not careful, and do I believe that on my own power that I can't manage this My own power, I have to have the help of a power greater than myself. And is the energy I'm carrying into this work? Now I come to believe that there could be some kind of a power that can take me beyond this. And if so, come on. Now when we get one on page 62, I understand that I'm the actor trying to run the whole show. And I have this delusion that people would just do as I wish, the show would be great. And am I this sometimes kind sometimes overbearing, the thing he talks about? On the top of 61? The toolkit of self? Well, I call it is that me, you know, what you may have been shown and come off. What usually happens, we come angry, indignant self, is that my pattern? Is this mean? We're talking about? Is this my belief based on what I've come to know, in this process now. And if I'm convinced, now I have taken that energy, and made the deal and the third step that I'm no longer in management, and God's gonna be running the show, and that's just fine with me. Now I'm committed, and all I have to do to stay close to Him and perform His work well, is that the energy I've carried into this inventory process? That I'm trying to see what's blocking me from this power? And how did it go during the inventory process? Did I lay it all out there? Did I get any freedom? Carefully reading the first five proposals? We've asked if we have a minute, anything, all of a sudden, this hour, becomes a serious piece of business? Where I'm like, is this head talk? Or has this landed in the center of my being, as we're building an arch, which we shall walk a free man at last is our work solid so far, are the stones properly in place, have a skim? This is this masonry reference that brings together all the masonry references leading up to an hour, it's talked about the cornerstone, the foundation, the cement, the Keystone, you know, all coming together in this arch that which we're going to walk a free man at last. So that's where the guy finds himself at the end of the fence. And that's where I think we should probably have to take up on the next one.

John M 57:23

Yeah, and just so everybody knows, just in case, I can't remember if Charlie said it or I get but all of that that he's talking about is on page 75, in The Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, so that's where you can that's where, if you want to rewind the tape and go back through those questions, again, that would be a great way to do it.

Charlie P 57:44

And we're referencing stuff that we've covered in depth in the earlier podcast. That's right. That's right.

John M 57:53

Okay, Mr. Charlie, this has been another good one I am going to read from page 164, the big book here to close this out. It says, abandon yourself to God as you understand God, admit your faults to him and to your fellows. clear away the wreckage of your past. give freely of what you find and join us we shall be with you in the fellowship of the spirit, and you will surely me some of us, like me, and Charlie P. As you trudge the road of happy destiny. May God bless you and keep you until then, once again, Mr. Charlie, thank you so much for joining me today. I sure appreciate it's

Charlie P 58:35

such a pleasure I have so much fun.

John M 58:38

Okay, well let's get to some time to get back together again you take care of us. As always, Mr. Charlie peace so much enjoyed having you on the podcast and if you are listening out there a little extra special prayer to you. And you are in my thoughts and prayers my friend. Now onto a little bit of listener feedback. Barry writes in very says Hey, John, Legend of the global pod waves Well, I don't consider myself a legend of the global pod waves but I'm glad you do very. He says greetings from across the pond. Barry is from London London calling and he says I hope this email finds you in the family. Well, just a courtesy note to say thank you for your continued zeal across the sober speak airways 2022 has gotten off to a great start. Some great pause every Friday evening and the perfect start to my weekends. The fellowship has cast these spell on me and tonight. I'm truly grateful. That's a good spell I think. And then he says Barry, two years and five months over Oh, very I remember you. We first started this podcast trying to get some traction and two years and five months that is absolutely fantastic. And he says just another Bozo on the bus. I am trying to make a contribution to own. I've never seen the word contributions spelled out before that gives. That's what it looks like. And that he says tallyho in diddly Dee in sober speak, we trust and that he says in David G. We trust and a big shout out to Gary K. And respect to Reno John and the Arlington crew. He's talking about Reno John and where he lives. He's Remora, LinkedIn. And he says a big up to Steve L. And the Redondo Beach, massive. It's ringing up all of our various speakers. We have one here and he says Peace to Mrs. M Ah, he's talking about my lovely ride. He says word up to y'all and Frisco MC Richie be talking. He's talking about rich V in Ocean City, Maryland and the Texas crew anyway, he signs up here tallyho in diddly Dee for now my friend from across the pond. And then he's got about four or five really happy emojis. Thank you very for writing in I appreciate you now oh, here's a post on oh gosh. From that to this you I read them all folks. Maybe I'll stop someday but it's very interesting to me. So on Apple podcast, who is this? L I ll e a five three a post I'm assuming that's a lily but who knows. That could be a man woman in between you never know but anyway. This person says just cut to the speaker they're reviewing me is what they're doing nauseating. He they're talking about John M. is self absorbed. Let us listen to the speaker. Well, you know I've never been called nauseating before that I know but I guess I could check that off my bucket list. I don't know. You know you can't please all the people all the time but L I L L E A five three a I do hope that you find a podcast that is more your suiting also on Apple podcasts. I will post here this is from peace lily. It says good content solid content. Well, thank you. peace lily. You must not be listening to the same podcast. li e a five three is but anyway, I appreciate you Lily very much.

John M 1:03:27

I'm assuming your name. We know what I just noticed something here. So the first one is li e ll E. That would be a lily and then this one is peace lily. Do you think this is a person that has a split personality that forgot that they listened to the podcast the first time and I came back on and listened and left a good review. You never can tell. But I digress him anyway, Jones writes in our friend Jones, he says thank you for the meeting between meetings. My sobriety date is August 28 2017. I have really enjoyed 99% of the episodes. And you know what? There's a couple episodes that actually there's just one in particular that I put out there. I'm not going to say which one it is because you go back and listen to it but I thought I really should not have put this out there. And it was back in the beginning it would have been in the first year but I thought this was a mistake. But I wonder if we're thinking of the same one when you say 99% Anyway says I really enjoyed 99% of the episodes and have gained so many tools to live a better life. I have listened to the episodes from number one, all the way through to number 186 Julia, she is a hoot. And I love her enthusiasm. That's a lot of listening there Mr. Jones. He says I generally like all the speakers and actually have met Some of the AIA members that Reno John mentioned when he first started his sobriety in Reno Nevada. I cannot say who my favorite speaker is because I pretty much love them all. A couple of episodes really changed my perception such as Brenda J, around Episode 90, when she said there is room enough in God's world for everyone that hit me between the eyes because I can be somewhat judgmental haha. So when my mind starts to drift into a bad place, that is not within God's love, I think of that phrase and reeled me back into God's love and grace. I can't remember the speaker's name but she says something to the effect of I have given up the right to a better past. Oh, you know what, I think I know what that that was. David G. quoting somebody that he was listening to was a she is she was a lawyer speaking at her birthday celebration, if I remember that, right. Anyway, he says, I love this because it helps me stay in the moment when my mind drifts off. Unfortunately, John, my sponsor of 20 years passed away last week and I am sad. Man, I'm sorry to hear that. He was a good Amen to help many. He had 37 years and he will be dearly missed. He taught me how to be a good sponsor. And anytime I am blessed to go through the book, with a newcomer, I remember how we went through the steps my sponsor taught me to start from the very beginning of the book the preface and so my plan tonight was to research the timeline so I can remember the dates and lo and behold, I checked my mailbox and good old John M. Left me all I needed for the early a history. So what he's talking about there as I sent out a we have an email list and if you're not on the email list, you can just go to the website and there's a little form you can fill out there or you can email me at John J O hN s ever speak calm and we'll get you on their merry way we sent out a a post of the early a history and how it was founded where it was formed and all that sort of stuff so we want to get on that just reach out to me or go to the website but anyway he says it just so happens that I am starting to work with a newcomer this week and we'll use that information you sent over is saved me some time thank you. Oh, I'm glad Jones anyway says enough out of me thank you very much for all the hard work excuse me hard work it carrying the message via this podcast. May God bless you and your family always Jones with jealous thank you so much and right back cashew May God bless you and your family always as well. Finally, Tony writes in a Tony says Hi John. I hope you're well just a heads up to say hello.

John M 1:08:24

I had a few rounds with I had a real few rounds with Oh, I was gonna do there. They said rounds with I thought oh easy rounds of drinks or wedding anyway with COVID at the end of 2021 and left me fatigued and lacking all forms of motivation. My fellowship buddies kept me going with checkups. check ins now and again and my faith in the fellowship was always there. At last. I have caught up with the sober speak episodes. Reno, John again gets the nuggets of gold in between the alcoholism, sarcasm. Alcoholic sarcasm. So let me read that again. He said Reno John again, gets the nuggets of gold in between the alcoholic sarcasm. That's very true. That's a good way to put it. And if you haven't heard Reno John's episodes, you should go back and listen to all of them. He's absolutely fantastic. Anyway, Tony goes on. He says I stopped drinking and began feeling the pieces fell together. That's why I was depressed in early sobriety. And that's why I am overly aggressive. That's why that is why in big capital letters hallelujah. I am not nuts well, maybe only slightly. But that there you just Can't put money on that. Such a shame. It took me six years and three months to understand that. Well, we all learn a little slow or at least I learn a little slow Dhoni I completely get it. He says next time around, I'll ask God for a coconut for a head. A coconut head for Tony, maybe things would get in there a little more easily take care. Tony dri Tony de I don't know if I've said this before, but when I I, when I do when I read that Tony D, we actually have a Tony D in our Frisco group that I attend as well. But when I when I hear see Tony D, it always takes me back to thinking of Tony doorset. And for those of you who are not Dallas Cowboy fan or football fans, that's not going to mean anything to you. But there's a running back out there and I love him and his name is Tony doorset. And we just call him Tony D when I say we just fan not me and my family when we went over his house or anything like that. But anyway. All right, folks. That wraps up another week. God bless you. May God bless you and keep you until then keep coming back. It works if you work it I'll probably be back next week. We always take this one. We at a time. Be well

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