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Transcript: 195- Charlie P- So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making

Updated: Nov 6, 2021

195- Charlie P- So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making


John M 04:31

Now, on to our guest, our featured guest of the week, Mr. Charlie P. from Austin, Texas, we've had Charlie p on once in the past, we are entitling this particular episode. So our troubles we think are basically of our own making. And most of you a lot of you will recognize that quote from the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, but Charlie has been sober since May 22 of 19, excuse me, March 22, of 1985. But anyway, Charlie talks about his experience with pawn shops, and the shame that he endured because of that particular experience. Charlie describes what it means to have a newcomer experience as a quote, step one experience is what he calls it. He discusses Turning Point accepting spiritual help. The actor and the director in the big book, the quote, toolkit of self will, and unquote, is what he calls it, selfishness, self centeredness, etc. And one of my favorite parts of this is when Charlie quotes Bob de by saying dying of alcoholism is like being kicked to death by rabbits. slow and painful. Alright, everybody. Without further ado, please help me welcome. Stand up and give a big round of applause if you will. Mr. Charlie, P.

Charlie P 08:22

Thank you, john. I'm Charlie. A very grateful recovered alcoholic. I live in Austin, Texas, capital city of the great state of Texas and my home group. My sobriety date is March 22, of 1985. And my home group is the primary purpose group of Alcoholics Anonymous if you ever not we meet in Austin new church on Tuesday night 730. If you ever in Austin, we'd love to see a 2701 South Lamar 7:30pm we have a line by line big book study meeting has been meeting for 15 years and we just have a ball and we'd love to see anybody come by and a lot of people have so it's it's a real gift.

John M 09:08

And the other thing we talked about last time, I don't know if you're still having that those zoom meeting. Are you having that as well.

Charlie P 09:16

We do. We're zooming on we had such a all of a sudden we had like 600 people come into our zoom meeting. So we when we went back live, we weren't just gonna slam the door on him. So now we meet live at 7:30pm Central Time, all my times are central time on zoom and our zoom numbers 630577473630577473 and, and we we have the same format on zoom on Wednesday nights. Is your password. No password. Yeah.

John M 10:00

We announced that last time you were on the program, do you? Do you know if anybody joined?

Charlie P 10:06

We've had a few Come on, and I'm gonna confirm that meeting number.

John M 10:10

Okay. You're looking it up there.

Charlie P 10:13


John M 10:16

Yep, that's what I have to I'm looking at it. And so I'll try to remember to put that in the show notes again. I know we did. So just so you all know, if you didn't hear Charlie's first episode, he was on episode number 176. And we titled that episode. I thought I changed my mind. And before we go into that, okay. So So last time we were together, we talked about the physical allergy, the phenomenon of craving. And we talked, we mentioned that we're going to follow up with both the solution and the plan of action. So that's what we've gotten back together this time. But before we go into that, why don't you go ahead and explain a little bit about that the title of the last episode, and now, you know, was I thought I changed my mind. What did you mean by that?

Charlie P 11:07

Oh, thanks, john. I know, I just got to apologize again. When we did the last episode, I had an upcoming throat procedure. And I thought I was gonna sound like being Crosby by the time we got to, for you kids. That was a singer. Back in the old days, ask your parents about a Christmas album. But I thought I was gonna be smoother by now. But it's still not the best. But okay, well

John M 11:33

hold on a second. Before we go on to that topic of the the episode title, I do want to cover your voice real quick and talk to people a little bit about what you had done and, and you have some more procedures coming up this week. And once you go and describe what's going on with your voice,

Charlie P 11:50

well, the good news is they're convinced it's cancer. It's just I had some dysplasia on my vocal cords and they went in and laser treated it seven weeks ago. And last week, I went in for a follow up and it's still red and there's a blister looking thing on it. Probably from overuse. And so I'm about to do a 10 day cycle of steroids and a five day silence and see if all the redness doesn't go away and which would be great if it were respond to that that'd be kind of surgery because you only get so many surgeries on your vocal cords before you start losing boys. So but you know, a lot of people are dealing with a lot worse than I am so I tell the doctor just keep me walking and talking and and we'll all be fine if if this is the worst we have to put up with even this would be okay.

John M 12:46

Well, you know, I feel a little bit guilty here recording you did you say you're part of this is from overuse, and I'm sitting here recording you?

Charlie P 12:55

Hey, it's all good. I only have three talks scheduled for me to album or today. You know, it's the funniest thing. I have another talk at 930 at night for the Portland West Portland group. But no, I'm very excited to be here. Okay, I talk at work I sell for a living. I sponsor about 26 guys. So I am in LA with Katie so I get to do plenty of talk.

John M 13:23

Speaking to Katie, I got to meet her right before we started today and those who are familiar Charlie p will know his lovely bride Katie P and we're going to have her on the podcast eventually. But we talked about this a little last time you guys had been married for how long now but known each other for guys seemed like we were ever

Charlie P 13:46

best friends for 20 years. And then her husband passed away. He he had a brain tumor. He went to relapse and behind the medication and actually died of a drug overdose after being sober. 23 years it just rocked our recovery community. And then not too long. Well, a year or so after that. Katie caught me at a weak moment. And I made a pass at Megan. And we've got a couple for 18 years. So that's great. Yeah, she's now I'll warn you in advance. Brace yourself when she comes on. She's a little bit like getting a drink from a firehose, you know.

Charlie P 14:36

That's all right.

John M 14:39

We'll look forward to Alright, so let's go back to I want to do a couple things. Number one, I want to talk about the title of the last episode of what that meant. And then also, as we were wrapping up the the first episode that we recorded together, you mentioned you wanted to pick up next time we got together on a story regarding up pawn shop. So let's do it one at a time. First things, I thought I changed my mind. What did you mean by that?

Charlie P 15:06

Well, you know, one of the things we said last time is that the three things that made Alcoholics Anonymous a big deal, when it all came together was an understanding of three things and understanding of the problem with alcoholism, a solution for that problem. But even if I know what the problem is, and I know the solution doesn't help me, if I don't know how to make it take place, we have a program of action that will produce that solution. And that's what we talk about a lot. And the thing I talked about last week, and I really want to move into it again, this week, is this problem of alcoholism and what it means because I spend a great deal, I spent some time in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous, raising my hand and saying, My name is Charlie, I'm alcoholic. And I didn't know what it meant. I mean, I figured if there was such a thing as an alcoholic, surely I must be one. But we didn't go into this thing we talked about last time, about the physical allergy, coupled with the mental obsession, it's so beautifully described, in the doctor's opinion, and the first 20, at least 2044 pages of the book, but the first 23 pages, talk about the physical aspect of alcoholism, this phenomenon of craving. And when I say a lot of times I talk about it, is it the tricky part about the phenomenon of craving isn't I never thought I've triggered a phenomenon of craving, when I would start drinking, I just thought I changed my mind. You know, I'm sure I said I was gonna just have a couple. But I changed my mind. You know, and two is a bad number, maybe we'll have seven, you know, maybe and, but looking back on it, anytime I had strike drinking, I would trigger this phenomenon of craving, which caused a compulsion to drink that, you know, when I start drinking, I'm all about drinking, and I can't control it on my own power. And it would be a beautiful me. It's a big problem, but it's not my biggest problem. Because if my biggest problem was what happens when I drink four ounces of vodka. My solution be simple. Just don't drink vodka. But that then is when it brings in the second piece of it is that I don't get okay. When I stopped drinking, and I get restless, I get irritable, I get discontentment. People start to bug me, you know, that sort of thing. And he could if you had 1000 foot view of me, you'd be able to tell within a couple of days I'll he's about to twist off again, he's gonna start a fight with his girlfriend, he's gonna, you know, he's gonna get mad at work. And he'll be drinking at no time. And, and this, what happens is, it brings me into this terrible cycle that the book talks about, where there's this circle where I drink and I trigger the phenomenon of craving. Now I'm drinking, drinking, drinking. And after a while, it gets really bad. And I have to stop, right get stopped. And then that's okay, for a minute. Look at like, maybe I was making too big of a deal of this thing, you know, because what happens is, I start getting uncomfortable. and and, and and I start getting restless and irritable and discontented. And that gets so uncomfortable, that it triggers this mental obsession to drink again. And it may not work well. But it worked once. And it worked in the past. And and I you know, and I always say when when the only tool you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. And next thing you know, I get you know, when I take that drink, it feels like it doesn't feel like the problem. It feels like the solution, you know. And so what happens is I drink until I have to stop. And then I stop until I have to drink. And I drink until I have to stop and then I stop until I have to drink. And if you're caught in that terrible cycle, there's a bottom below the bottom. You know, I tell guys all the time Don't ever say can't get any worse. I just shows a lack of imagination. But the thing we try he might look up in three years gone God I wish I had quit back then when everything was still pretty good, you know, because now it's really bad. And and so

Charlie P 19:35

what happens is when we get to about page 24 in the book we have I've placed myself in a position where I've lost the power of choice and control. I can't choose whether I'm gonna drink or not. And once I do start drinking, I can't control the amount I take. And and you know the tricky thing is trying to do them both at the same time trying to do Choose and control my drinking, I could either choose not to drink, but I wouldn't enjoy it, or I could control my drinking and I wouldn't enjoy it. So and the way the story I like to tell about losing the power of choice control was the pawnshop story. I grew up in Dallas where you are now. And I just loved pawnshops. I love, I grew to love them, I should say. I loved everything about them. I love the purity of the equation, you know, and never wants walk in you because you just go into the pawn shop. And you give them the shotgun, and they give you the money. And you go back and you give them the deer raffle. And they give him the money and then you give him a sterling silver. And they get I've never once had a pawnbroker go, good God, man, what are you gonna do with this money? No, or? Or Weren't you just hear two hours ago, or, you know, it's never like that. They just give you the money. And the thing was, I have a plan. And we are calling to make some really good plans. I mean, we were smart people, we make plans that you could take over to the university, and show it to them, and they look it over and go. That's pretty solid plan you got there, you know, and my plan was that I had 90 days to get everything out of the pawn shop, you have a 90 day period, where if you pay the interest, and the principal, you get it back. So I wasn't selling this stuff. I was just pawning it. And the plan was always I'll come back when I'm flush, and get it back on now. Part of the problem was, I may have mentioned last week, I was so poorly treated as a child, that I ran away from home for good at the age of 28.

Charlie P 21:53

My mother doesn't think that's funny, but I'm sure he never went back, you know, but a lot of this was going on at that time. And the thing about this, this plan I had one complicating factor was it I didn't know him very much stuff. So I was having upon stuff that didn't belong to me. And that puts a little more heat on the equation. But you know, I got a plan. And and so But one day, I pulled an insurance scam that I've since made demands for and I had enough money to get everything out of the pawn shop. And it's timed, it's Gotama. You know, we need to go to the pawn shop and get all this stuff now now that so but I used to drink a little place in East Dallas called the spillway pub or by the spillway like and and I just loved the place. And it was the only place in Dallas that would let me run a tab. So it's also a very important piece of business to go by and settle my tablet spill a pop. And because I'm gonna need that, you know when the money's gone again. So now but we're not going to do anything stupid, we're not going to go crazy. We're certainly not going to trigger some kind of phenomenon of craving or anything like that, whatever that is. But the problem is, I'm a blackout drinker. And one of the few lines in the book that doesn't apply to me. I love our book, and it almost universally applies to me. But there's one line where it's on page 30 where it says our stories are filled with countless vain attempts to prove that we could drink like normal men. I don't I don't have any experience with that. I never tried to drink like normal man, I was about oblivion. I was a sloppy drinker. I went a year and a half without working there. And that's about getting loaded for the very beginning. So I'm a blacked out a lot but I didn't have many of these on this next thing I know after going by the settlement habits bill IPOP I came out of I was upstairs at my parents house. And I came out of a five day blackout. Now I need to have many of those I had a lot of those blackouts where you don't remember the drive home. Or you were to you know you look at the curtains to see if the cars there and Wow. You know why are there weeds in my bumper and you know, that sort of thing. But this was five days of don't remember anything. And I came out and I'm sitting up I can tell you what the entire room looked like I could tell you the color of the carpet, the bedspread, the furniture, the wallpaper, the temperature of the room. Because when I came out of this blackout, I had stolen my jeans on any of my right hand pocket I had $8 and in my left front pocket, I still had all of those Pontic and we've all had those mornings or you just go oh no Oh no. Because now I am out of plan. And I shot my wad on this other scam. And I got nothing. No, I'm not a sociopath. I'm worried about it for a minute. But I've looked at it I'm not a sociopath, you know, and and I'm not going to sell my father's beloved shotgun for $40 if I can figure out me, so I would have to go to my father, who was a good man and say, dad, listen, if, if we act now, I can get you a pretty good deal on all your stuff. But if we wait till tomorrow, it's strictly retail. And I always have to tell that kind of like, it's a joke a little bit. Because if I touch the desperation of that day, having to stand there and tell my father that I've pawned all this, and I got nothing. So we would have to get in his truck. And truck off proper. Dallas is a big spread out town like Los Angeles, it's not. So I wouldn't just go to the pawn shop. It was we have to go up on East Grand and get your shot guy, we go on Buckner Boulevard and get your deer off. And we got to go out to Oak Cliff and get your metal detectors and then I left your sterling silver out on peloton road. So it was all day in the car with me, and my dad, and all that shame.

Charlie P 26:41

And when we'd be driving around, I'd be going Dad, I swear to God, I will never do this again. I don't want to feel like this, I don't want you to feel like this. I will never do this again. And if I was lying to that man, I damn sure didn't know it. Because it felt like I met it with every fiber of my being. But the thing I didn't know, Brian into his truck with him was that I didn't have the power to make good on that choice on that promise. That's what I'm talking about. When I talk about powerless over alcohol is I don't have the power to manage that decision to not drink. And once I stopped drinking, I can't manage it. Well if it's become unmanageable, and I'm powerless or alcohol, because I would hit the back door his house like a cat burglar within three, five days. And it just be like that, and we've got grabbed something. And off we go. And by the time I got up people, my father and I've made the rounds to the pawn shops three times. That's how cool I was. That's how slick I was. I was a burden to anyone that was unfortunate enough to love me I've been involved with. That's the guy that brought Alcoholics Anonymous. And I thought I had a little bitty problem. I figured he probably had a little bitty answer. Now that's if I've learned two things that's I've got here is that one is I had a much bigger problem than I thought I had when I got here. And the other is Alcoholics Anonymous had an enormous answer. And I didn't know that coming in. But what so this powerless over alcohol all this our books spends the first 44 pages I mean a big and the doctor's opinion basically almost half of our recovery tax. Talking about the problem. This problem with alcohol that I have a body that doesn't respond on alcohol and I got a mind that's gonna drive me back to it every time every time every time.

John M 29:07

We will be continuing our conversation with Charlie p from Austin, Texas in just a moment just a reminder you're listening to sober speak you can find us on the worldwide web as sober There you can find approximately 195 or so other episodes you can listen to for free. You can also find the donate button on our website which you can use if and only if the spirit moves you to do such Please keep in mind this is a podcast funded by you the listener, sober speaker is a self supporting organization through our own contributions we are not allied with any sect, denomination politics, organization or institution. We do not wish to engage in any controversy neither endorse or oppose. Any causes are not mess back to Mr. Charlie P. Alright, so we're talking about the problem. We're talking about the solution the fact that you thought you had a little party problem and aa had a little solution. So take me on from there. And no pawnshop story, by the way was very, very telling, right, of where this kind of disease will take us. But go right ahead.

Charlie P 30:15

Well, it was absolute powerhouses and, and so now the thing is, I think sometimes we have a tendency to rush somebody through the doors of Alcoholics Anonymous. And I think, you know, the book talks about the ex problem drinker, who's found our solution is properly armed with the facts about himself congenitally when the entire confidence of a new man in a couple hours. And that's, I think a big piece of being properly armed with the facts about myself is being able to explain to somebody that they don't just have a moral problem or a weakness that this this combination of physical allergy mental obsession, mental blank spot, makes me so powerless I am, and it drives me into a need for the solution. Because down, because down here at the bottom of page 24, it says, when this sort of thinking is fully established in an individual with alcoholic tendencies, he is probably placed himself beyond human aid. And and he goes on to talk about this, there is a solution, almost none of us like the self searching, leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings which the process requires, but we saw that it really work others as one, and we've come to believe in the hopelessness of futility of life is we've been living. So my job is to give this guy a fatal dose of alcoholism, or what I call a step one experience. Well, because you see, guys, I talk at treatment center sometimes. And when a guy has a step one experience, you can see them lean forward and their chairs, and his hits on like a ton of bricks, and they're going hold on just a minute. I've been in and out a for 15 years. And I've never heard the stuff you're talking about. Because for a whole bunch of problem drinkers, when it when we talk about going back to AI, or you know, it's, it's okay, I gotta quit drinking, I gotta go back to those meetings. And I'm not I have nothing, I love the meetings, I love the fellowship. But just going to a meetings, if you have alcoholism, the way we're describing, it will keep a guy like me sober, right up to the point and I drink again. And I can't figure out why. And when you got a guy that's coming in, and you're saying, and he's thinking, What's going to be different this time. I'm going to try to get to that here in a minute. But the thing is, when we talk about this power greater than myself, the reason we have to pound this stuff, my experience is I don't know why I would give a flap about a power greater than myself, if I still think my power is gonna get the job done. But the moment that I'm crushed by this fact that on my own, I got no shot. Well, then this power gets real interesting. No, and it goes on later on to talk about it on Bayes. 20 cent, you know, same 25 it says, we believe there's if you're a seriously alcoholic, because we were, there's no middle of the road solution, where we were in a position where life has become an impossible, and if we passed into the reason for which there is no return, so human aid, we had but two alternatives. You know, we read that part of how it works in the meetings, and it says we stood at the turning point, we asked his protection. For years, I never asked myself what the turning point was. And it says right, it's writing on page 25. It says one was to go on to the bitter end blotting out the consciousness of my intolerable situation. And there's people listening to this podcast that are trying to blot out an intolerable situation, you know, it says and the other is to accept spiritual help. That's it. I scan it but there's no flashing red line, red line at the at the turning point. You know, and it's like, either keep going away or going try not to think about it. And I know alcoholism is a long slow death. You know, my buddy pop D says it's, it's like being kicked to death by rabbits. By the time you're dead, you wish you'd been dead a long time.

Charlie P 34:42

But so then, it tells us wonderful story about rolling hazard but my favorite piece, hey, when we switch over to the solution is it says we in our turn on 2028 on 28 it says we sought the same escaped at rolling hazard event with the desperate Have a drowning man, this gift of desperation comes from a clear understanding of how Sankar really, you know that this is not something I'm going to think my way out of, I'm not fixing to get a handle on it. In Texas, we say fixing it means preparing to. It doesn't mean repairing. It means preparing to. I'm not fixing to get a handle on it, and nobody can help me. And the thing I love about drowning, is I don't ask a lot of questions. If you spend the time pounding this problem, they get much more open minded about the solution, which is this power greater than myself, you know, and because until I've had this step, one experience and that gift of desperation, I think I need for you to tell me what we're gonna do. how's it gonna go? What's it gonna feel like when I'm doing it? What's the end result gonna be? And I thought it was really important that I approve of the whole process. Right? But when I've had that step, one experience, all you're gonna hear out at me is, and I can tell that john used to drink like IBM, and he's not drinking anymore. All you're gonna hear out I mean, it's what do you want me to do? And then that makes me emotional, because there's magic that takes place at that moment, because the next thing you're going to hear out is okay, I did that. Now, what do you want me to do? And from there we roll. But otherwise, I have a guy that's thinking, maybe I got a problem. If my step one decision is just a mental exercise, then my ensure I'm alcoholic, well, then my third step is going to be an academic exercise. But when I have this desperation, step one experience it's going to carry it has, it drives me into the rest of the work, one step calls for the next step. And the desperation, calls for power. And the second step calls for the third step.

John M 37:13

So a couple things that I write. So number one, when you're reading earlier, and I've always found it a little bit funny slash interesting slash ironic that you tell a new man that he is beyond he or she is beyond human aid. It's it's like, welcome to Alcoholics Anonymous. We were glad you're here, by the way, you're beyond human aid, I would get up Yeah, yeah. And then the other pieces that I did a wonder to make that switch there, you talk about, you know, making that shift from, from the problem, and not just realizing that this is I mean, you need to understand the academic part of it and understand what alcoholism is as such, but, you know, how do you get to that peace of actually turning your will in your life over the care of God as you understand them? And that's what I think you wanted to shift into next and what we would call the solution

Charlie P 38:13

when that's the other thing that amazes civilians is when you get to the line where it says whether to live life on to die, alcoholic death, or to live life on a spiritual basis are not always easy decisions to make to normal people they're like, that's a tough one for you.

Charlie P 38:32

Like bitter and

Charlie P 38:36

die an alcoholic that Can you can you tell me a little bit more about that bitter end? You know? How long does it take? Do I get to drink between right and the bitter end? Yeah, that's the third option. Yeah, so we we pound and you know, we wish we had a door number three because we know a lot of our members are not excited about the spiritual aspect of this program. But we were pretty excited when we found door number two you know before all this came on guys like me went to the nut house or the graveyard or both, you know and so what when we what happens Oh, I'm gonna skip way ahead because I don't even in workshops I don't have a tremendous amount of time to talk about more about alcoholism we agnostics I think we agnostics is one of the greatest pieces of spiritual literature ever written. And it deals a lot with my, with my prejudices. And the thing is that I use language like we beg of you to lay aside prejudice even against organized religion and, and I love to talk about it with time restraints. Don't let us talk about appetite. But step one is this problem. Step two is the solution. But the thing is, there's a lot of examples in our book of people. ahead, two of the three things together, they understood the problem like Dr. Bob understood the solution. We even had the Oxford group program. But he didn't understand the problem. wasn't until bill came to him explained alcoholism the way silkworth explained it to him, Bill saw Bob sobered up Never to drink again. Other people had knew a little bit about the product, like a call young talking about certain American businessman. He says you got the mind of a chronic alcoholic, you need these here and there once in a while. Amazing spiritual awakenings I've seen I got a great story to go with that. But I'm not going to tell it today. But I mean, he's got going you need one of those, we got no flippin idea how to make it happen. But you that's the only thing that's gonna fix you, the big thing we have is we have a program of action that will bring about that solution. And I've admitted in step two, the only thing that allowed me is a spiritual experience. And then our 12 step, it says, having had a spiritual awakening and added an app as the result of these steps. So it's saying the only thing allow me is available to us, as a result of these stamps, and by now that we've spent about an hour and a half on step one. That solution is really interesting. Well, the thing I want to talk about in the two hours we have left today.

John M 41:31

By the way, Charlie, don't worry about the time because we can always schedule some more time to come back around and talk about whatever you need to talk as long as your voice is going to be okay in a couple months.

Charlie P 41:42

I love being there. And if it helps anybody helps anybody. It's certainly worth the effort. Because we act like sometimes that everybody out there drinking knows this stuff they know about alcoholism, but they know what he does. And we don't you know, in fact, one of my favorite exercises, I've done it in rooms with 6000 people is when you think about when you would swear you were never going to drink again to get people or whatever. And then they look up in your drink. And they always ask that question. They go, john, why did you start drinking again, and we give them the only answer we've got, which is what?

John M 42:26

I don't know.

Charlie P 42:27

I don't know. I don't know. God. It's like, I did it. I've done it in big rooms. And it's like a chorus in Africa. We go. I don't know. I mean, it's just what I do. I heard the people that love me, I'll make promises that don't keep and by the time I get here, I think disease my left foot. There's something really bad wrong with me. And to find out that this is problem and to have a solution for it is amazing message to be able to carry. But when I came into the room cycling's. We made a big mistake. I had a sponsor I love for the rest of all APA we basically said, Are you alcoholic? And I thought, Well, yeah, sure, I must be you know, I didn't know anybody that drank more than idea. And I've met a few since then. I got some impressive stories. But and then we had to dance around the higher power issue. And once we got okay with our power issue. We got that RNA, isn't it the third step prayer and started writing inventory. I think it's one of the biggest mistakes being made in Alcoholics Anonymous, assuming that there are any mistakes being made in alcoholics. Because what happened was we went right from Are you alcoholic? Do you believe in God, to get down on your knees and do the third step prayer and for a whole bunch of our membership. The whole third step is the third step prayer. I've done workshops, I was out in Utah. I'm gonna burn up some time here, but you're good. But I was out in Utah, one time doing a workshop and it was a men's retreat, and I had a sponsee with me, and we're talking Katie's name comes up. And the guy that recorded it comes from behind his table. There's a group of us sitting there between sessions. And he points at me and he says, this guy's wife did a one hour talk on Step three, and never even got to the third step prayer. And we were thinking, we do that all the time. But if your total understand that's remarkable. If your total understanding of the third step is you do the third step prayer. But so that was my experience for about 17 years, I had my biggest spiritual awakening, and 17 years of sobriety, I'm sober 36 years now, but it's 17 years of my man named Mark Houston walked into my life and if you don't hear me say anything else, hear me say get a hold of some Mark Houston, right? recordings and study them, listen to them take notes, pause, I'm a changed my life and the lives of many people and, and the message we're still trying to carry. But when I say we made a mistake, skip it. What happens when you do that when you go out from Do you believe in God to the third step prayer, you skipped this body of work that takes place in Pages 60 to 63. And it's really not very important. It's just the root of my problem. And the basis of my recovery for the rest of my that, just skip it, you know, yeah, not important. And let us know how it's going. And that's why we're blowing up marriages, and we're blowing up jobs and can't figure out why I want to kill myself, at eight years sober, and those sorts of things. And to be able to tell that guy, there's more available, and a lot of it takes place in these pages and what comes from them. So in the time we have, I want to go to page 60. And after that, A, B and C that we read, it says, being convinced, you know what the next line after a, b and c, that part up to A, B and C, you know, a that way I could not manage all my eyes be there probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism and see that God could and what if he were sought. And that's the end of that part of how it works that we read at the start of I call it the most often read, least listened to portion of the big book. Most of us zoned out about the time they say, right, rarely have we seen a person come back, come back into the room. I found that to be that probably though. So the next line after that is being convinced we were at step three, being commenced to one, A, B, and C. So I've been committed, that tells me that a, b and c, do a pretty good job of summing up one and two. But when we roll into Step three, it says that we decided to turn out like you talked about earlier, we're going to turn our will and our life over to the cab God as we understand them. Now, if I'm working with a guy, let's go Okay, Bob,

Charlie P 47:12

we need you to turn your will in your life over to the care of God. I've taken the big book, and it's turning statements into questions. And there's some times where I go, alright, here I go. This would be a very fair question for this guy, as he's desperate, he knows his sound. And I say I want you to turn your well and your life over the care of God. I think it would be a fair question for him to go. But just what do you mean by that? And just what do we do? And you know, and from there, it spends the next two pages talking about what we mean. And then it switches to what we do. Now, here's the piece that matters for 17 years. It says the first requirement. Is it an actual first person in this paragraph? It says the first requirement is Charlie be convinced that any live that Charlie's life run on self will can hardly be a success. Above commands I've written Are you convinced the thing is, at 17 years sober that lie and leapt off the page at me. And not only was I not convinced of that concept, that line had never touched me. Because we went right from God couldn't wait to progress on to the third step prayer. So I'm out to work in a program, like the problem as alcohol. And blame me that not drinking is a big piece of what we do. But all of a sudden, it says I got to be convinced that my life itself well can hardly be as it says on that basis. Now bill uses that term basis, a lot basis basic. Basically, he uses that a lot. And when I looked it up in our dictionary, we're like we use it our meaning. It says the underlying principle of something or the foundation of something is its basis. And when the basis of my life is I'm running this deal, says I'm almost always a collision with something or somebody, even though my motives are good. When I'm with a guy and take about an hour, 15 minutes to do these next two pages, but I'm going to try to do it real fast, because it goes on to say even our motives are good. So I can't even trust my motives. I'm always getting in jackpots. And it seems like my motives are good. Right? But but so and then it goes on to say most people try to live by itself. we're lacking accurate. Anybody ever read this thing about the actor and get nothing out of it? You know, you're like, What? Why? It turns out, this actor wants to run the whole show. But what I didn't know for a long time is that the reason he's such a pain in the neck is because he's not the director. He's just an actor, right? He's supposed to Stand on the axe and say his lands. But he's got an opinion about everything when they're always trying to sound like me a little bit. You know, I walk in a grocery store and I got opinions, I like to form really strong opinions based on a limited perspective, you know, why they have the beendet over here in a pile of potato chips are over there, and, you know, and all that, and, and but it comes to this delusion that if only my arrangements were stay put. If only people would do as I wish the show would be great. How can that be selfish, john? I mean, I'm trying to create Charlie topia. But you're invited, you know, it's gonna be great for everybody. It's just life would be wonderful. And in trying to make these arrangements, this is what I call the toolkit of self well. Self Well, this is what I'm trying to get things to go my way. Sometimes I'm unkind. Consider even modest self sacrifice. Right, in trying to get you to do what I want you to do. Unless what? Unless that ain't working? is on the other hand. Am I being mean egotistical, selfish, dishonest. But usually I have mixed trades. This is what usually happens. I mean, anybody I'm like a halfback. jukin in the open field?

Charlie P 51:30

nationalist. I mean, if that doesn't work, but I'm always try and it says what usually happens? The show didn't come off very well. I'll see if this sounds familiar. I began to think laughter didn't treat me right. Anybody in the last two weeks, like laughing at you? Right? You know, it says, I've decided that this is a faulty premise, no, a pullback from it. And I decided to exert myself more driving and I become on the next occasion more demanding or more crazy. Still the play that suit me in meaning I might be somewhat at fault, maybe this month. I'm sure others are more to buy. This is where half of my 10th steps with sponsees could start with Let me guess the show didn't come off very well. If you feel like what happened train me, right. And so it says, I become angry, indignant self pity. And this is not angry this week. indignant next week. self pity, though, it's I can't believe they're doing this. You know, indignant, after everything I've done for these knuckleheads, this is the way they're going to treat me. And then finally, what's the use self? Maybe What's the use? I can't work with these people. You know, I'm just, you know, and I go, am I What is my basic trouble? There's that word basic. What is the underlying problem? Am I not really a self seeker even when trying to become, you know? And am I not a victim, tricked by this delusion is live. And I'm telling myself that I can seize happy satisfaction and happiness from this life. If I'm just mainly 1217 years sober, I'm managing my tail off, and everything is blowing up in my face. I can't figure out why. And and then the end. And it says, what about the plane says, and do not is actually ended evident to the rest of the players what he's trying to do, and don't my actions, make them want to retaliate? If I see you trying to hog the spotlight, I'm going to be trying to get up front too. And we got chaos on our hands right away because anybody could see what my producer of confusion rather than harmony. And he goes on. To say that I'm self is self centered, egocentric. And when we go to the next page, okay, just what it says it switches here. And it says selfishness, self centeredness, that we think is the root of our problem. What that is, was Alcoholics Anonymous, that vodka was the root of our problem. It's just driven by 100 deaths. Now members of what do we mean? And what do we do? It's still talking about what we mean here. And it says, driven by 100 forms of fear, self delusion, self seeking self pity, I step on people's toes, they retaliate, seemingly without provocation, right? I didn't do nothing. They just went up. And it says, We invariably find, at some point in the past, we have made decisions based on self, which later places I mean, here's one of the biggest promises in the big book. It says so our travels we think are basically yours that term basic again, are basically of our own making. Why is that a promise. Because if my problems are of everybody else's making The only way I'm ever going to be okay is if I can get everybody else to act, right? I have very little experience getting there by the act, right. But if it's my own making me and this power and a new attitude, have a chance, and it says, I'm going to close with it with this next little paragraph. It says, they arise out of ourselves and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self will run riot. Now, I never thought I was having extreme example itself. Well, on the next line is a drug trap. It says, though, he usually doesn't think so. You know, I tell this story about if you went out in the United States, and you got all the people, and you picked out the people that were self will run riot. Right. And you built this 20 foot chain link fence with guard towers and and raise revenue. And you heard all the people in the country that are self will run riot into that fence down there. Are you getting the image of that community?

John M 56:05

I do? Yes.

Charlie P 56:06

Now we're gonna go into that community. And we're gonna pluck out the extreme examples of self well on right, these are the ones driving the other self will run riot people crazy, right? So we pluck out all those extreme examples, and put them in a room, guess what we got? Welcome to alcohol. But the problem is, I don't even think I belong in the fence. Right? Because I got a motives and I got my story. And I got you know what I was trying to do. And so I think when you come to pluck me out, I don't think I'm an extreme example, I think, oh, they heard my story. And they they see that mistake now. Gen pop knew no. So it goes on. But now here's where it gets heavy. It says above everything we are calling supposed to be selfish. And I like to look in the end goal. What does the words above everything mean to you? I mean, it paramount importance. It doesn't even say above everything. We got to stop drinking vodka. It says above everything. We got to get rid of this office. And we must or it kills us. But God makes that possible. Because the thing is, I can't just listen to this talk and go, you know that knucklehead from Texas is right, I'm gonna stop being less selfish. It's in my DNA. I can't just do it on my own power. It says God makes that possible. And there often seems no way of entirely getting rid of self without his aid. Many of us had moral and philosophical convictions that we couldn't live up to. Neither can we reduce our self centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power, we had to have God's help, you know, so I spent a long time tied up with this, I spent a long time in AI, focusing on our own problem. It turns out alcohol never was my problem. Alcohol was the only thing I'd ever found that would ease the discomfort of alive based on selfishness, and self centeredness. And I've worked my whole program like the problem with alcohol. Chuck Chamberlain, gave a talk called new pair of glasses, and they put it into a book and, and one of the things he tell the story about a guy named tax and tax had been afraid of dogs his whole life. And one day doing in between, he realized that when he was a kid, he had been bit by dog, but when he looked at it further, he realized that he'd been chasing this little neighborhood girl across her yard, when her dog came out and bit him. And he said, All my life, I've been running from dogs and chasing women, and dogs never worry about it's a way for me. I've been working on a program like the problem was alcohol. It really wasn't the problem was that I was so self centered, that I created this mental obsession, this discomfort. Now, my sobriety picture gets much bigger. Now it's not just drink, don't drink now is how to self show up. How does it manifest? What's it like to be me? What's it like to be around me? Once you'd like to date me work for me, be parroted by me. And it changes the whole picture. And right there is where it switches over to this is the how and why of it. I think we're gonna have to do it on another

John M 59:57

podcast. We're gonna have to get back Together Again, Charlie, and I will look forward to that. And who knows, we may do two or three more. I don't know neither of us are going anywhere. You have to preserve your voice for tonight talking to the Pacific Northwest, we want them to get a good Charlie be and and then you're going to have your surgery. How long will your You said you're going to have five days of silence for a while and we use 10 days. 10 days of steroids and five days of silence there. I

Charlie P 1:00:32

really don't look forward to that because I do not sleep. I tackle steroids. And then five days of not saying anything, which might be recommended when you haven't been sleeping.

John M 1:00:49

Well, listen, well, well, we'll ended up now. And then I will get back with you. Maybe we even do do it after we stop recording here. But as you

Charlie P 1:00:59

know, well, let's just make a note that we covered what we mean. And we're gonna start up next time and this is

John M 1:01:06

how and why we're gonna start it with the how and why of it.

Charlie P 1:01:12

What we do and then we can roll from there.

John M 1:01:16

With with so we're gonna cover the how and why of it. And then what was the next part? I said, we'll be able to roll from there. Okay, you got it? Yeah. Um, so we're doing some planning on the podcast here, while folks are listen to do is and I absolutely love that. I think that's the best way to do that. Yeah. So I will definitely get back with you. Let me go ahead and read page 164. Here to closes out, says the banner yourself to God as you understand God. admit your faults to him and to your fellows. clear away the wreckage of your pasts. give freely of what you find. Join us, we shall be with you in the fellowship of the Spirit. And you will surely be some of us as you trudge the road of happy destiny. May God bless you. It keep you until then. And this is the type of podcasts that I would recommend that people go back the type of episode I should say, they would recommend people go back and listen to again. posit, back it up. Take notes on it. As you saw me earlier, terribly. I've been taking notes like left and right as you're talking. And I'm going to go back and review my notes. And then always, you know, it's always interesting. What you don't know is that I have to go back and pick out you know, just like you know, 20 seconds of something that you may have talked about during the episode and put it on the beginning. And I have so many choices here. I don't know exactly what I'm going to do. So, God God bless you our friend. Good luck with your treatment coming up. And we will get together record some again soon. Okay,

Charlie P 1:02:57

as well. JOHN, thank you for all you do.

John M 1:02:59

God bless. God bless. As always. Thank you, Mr. Charlie. I already have Charlie scheduled for an additional recording. And we will have Charlie back for a third episode here in the near future. Just stand by for more jewels of wisdom from Mr. Charlie. Now on to a little bit of a listener feedback for you. Babs writes in that's Ba ba ba Zi Babs? I like that name. That was a girl. I'd like to be called Babs. But nonetheless, that's a completely different subject. Babs writes in and she says the subject line is Thank you. And Bab says I am married to an alcoholic and I like out I like allanon very much. But for some reason. I get a lot more out of a groups and I've heard that before Babs. She says I'm very delighted to get to know your podcast and keep doing what you're doing. You're shedding light in a very dark place and that is very good. I'm home alone brokenhearted because once again my husband checked into a motel to binge drink. He does this on an average of once a month. He was sober for about eight months and I was grateful. But he's never been able to bounce back between his depression and his alcoholism. I pray for a miracle daily. I am reminded of the story and x three. Of course Jesus could have healed the cripple but it was left for Peter the apostle to heal the cripple to show timing. The only reason why Peter was able to heal the cripple was because he did it in Christ's name. And while I don't expect you to get all scripture While I didn't expect you to get all the Scripture with people, and I don't and I understand from me to you, I wanted to let you know I'm still waiting for a miracle when it comes to my husband. I'm hoping that a cop does not knock on my door and tell me that my husband passed away from an alcohol overdose. No one should die alone. I know this sounds dramatic, but I know you know, and I know you know that what I'm talking about and being insanely candid. I know you understand. Keep doing what you're doing. You don't know how much you're like can do best. Babs will Babs. I know. There's a lot of a lot of people out there that can relate to exactly what you wrote down. I appreciate you being candid, candid. And I do understand and there's a lot of people that understand and that's why I read these things out there so people will know. They are not alone. Thank you Babs. Angela writes sooner she says Good morning, john. I live in New Brunswick, Canada that she's got a big old Maple Leaf emoji. And I've lived here all my life. It's a beautiful province and province and if you ever have the chance to come all the way up north here. It would be great. We don't live in igloos. Haha.

John M 1:06:33

I've been to Canada many, many times and actually, I love it. I love it. I absolutely love Canada. And she says this is my second time around in recovery. I quit in 2012 for three years to the day when I was offered a glass of champagne by my ex in laws at my ex in laws 50th wedding anniversary and I took it it was only a matter of months before I was a daily drinker again for the next six years. So in January of 2020 just before COVID I really needed to end it again. I've been sober now for 533 days Good for you. So when COVID head and meetings were placed on hold I searched out and found sober speak on Spotify today. I've listened to all of the episodes except maybe the last couple of weeks. It was extremely helpful during that time and I still enjoy them today. There are a couple of speakers I resonate with of course, but not 100% sure of the names except for Maria she's talking about Maria R and she says all the episodes have something all of the episodes have something in them that I can walk away with I even jumped on a zoom meeting with you guys in May of 20 Oh That must have been a the live one of the live events we did either David G or Gary k i can't remember who we did in May of last year. Anyway she says things are going well I don't want to drink but like many others it's in the back of my mind on a hot summer day or out for an evening meal. Of course I opt out because I want this Keep up the great work john you're helping so many people with your pot I regret to say I'm not donate it out don't even though you say we can if we can even though you say only if we can but I've listened to 99% of them and I've taken so much from the episodes I will give back. You have my word guess I'll have to figure out Pay Pal haha. Have a fantastic 24 hours. JOHN, I know I will. Thanks. Regards, Angela. Hey, I just want to say this to everybody listening out there Do not be concerned about the donating part at all. Just keep listening and you don't be concerned about Angela are really mean that when I say if and only if the spirit moves you to do such and and I've said this many times before, if you have the chance of giving to me and this little podcast that I have versus giving to local groups and given to people that are kind of boots on the ground I'd much rather you give there so but anyway, God bless you. And and I read that. I remember thinking about that before I read it but I wanted to read it because I just don't want other people I if you're thinking the same thing, if you're thinking that I know others are and I just don't want anyone to be concerned about that at all. Thank you Angela T.

John M 1:09:52

Justine writes in and she says hi john. I'm from Massachusetts, and I have a bit of an Boston accent. So I'm told, hey, Justine, are you going to park the car at the stock market? nonetheless, she says I am newly sober three months after an on and off decade of trying to moderate denial had me thinking I had one more trick up my sleeve. I've been listening to the silver speak podcast now for the last six months. And I've really enjoyed the contents and the speakers. I somehow just came up on it on the podcast out. I especially like Matthew m on surrendering and meditation, especially. Also Jennifer h. k, cracks me up so much strength and hope shared. I want to join the super secret Facebook group. And I also try and I also try Sunday afternoon yoga class. By the way, just as a little quick announcement here, I don't think I've said it thus far on far on this particular episode. But if you go to server speak, comm and click on the Resources tab, you will see the login information that we have for a Sunday afternoon at four o'clock pm Central, half meeting half yoga class that we do and you come in there and join us all is free, Megan p puts it on and we would love to see you guys in there. But nonetheless, she says your podcast bring in umur and levity into a pretty serious subject. So I find it a great reco resource plus as an Irish woman or she's an Irish woman. I always love a good story. Anybody story. Any time please do me the honor of accepting me into the Facebook group Justine? Well, Justine, as you know, you are in that Facebook group and the honor is all ours. I really appreciate you right now.

John M 1:12:00

David writes in he says Good Morning, Vietnam. He didn't say Morning Vietnam. That's all old movies. It's good morning. I live in Virginia, I have been sober for 13 years and have not stepped foot into an a meeting and 12 years didn't work the steps and thought I was better than everyone else in parentheses. Imagine that exclamation point. I made it a series of horrible destructive decisions, non alcohol related. And at the advice of a non a friend started attending meetings again. That in and of itself is a much longer but sad and funny, miraculous story. So when in a meeting it stated they like quote, sober podcast, unquote. So I searched out a podcast and I somehow landed on sober speak. Well welcome Mr. David, and have been listening ever since having attended a meeting every day since November of 2020. Good for you, David. He says thanks for your podcast. It has helped me tremendously through these difficult days. Well, God bless you until you're on the right track. And I'm so glad you found some meetings again. Brad writes in and Brent says good day john. And he's not from Australia, but he still says Good day, john. I'm just grateful that resources such as yours, are available to us seeking sobriety and a spiritual way of living. I came across sober speak for I am a follower of Bill see from her mosa Beach, California. My sobriety date is June 18 2017. How fortunate are we in this current era of AIA where we have recovery resources such as yours at our fingertips. I am sponsor have done the steps three times and I try to stay in the middle of our pack. I have a HomeGroup but I am fortunate that it I am. But I'm fortunate that any of my daily meetings bring a sense of being home when I'm present. I'm sharing my experience with a man who is seeking our way of life. I take time each day to simply pull out my phone, put in the headphones and listen to a speaker's sharing their experience strength and hope how cool it is that I can do that at any time of the day. I listened to chuck Chamberlain, sandy beach, Mark Euston excetera, along with a man who simply says, quote bumps me onto the broad highway Quote bill. See? That's right. Wow. Yeah, those speakers I used to listen to a lot of tapes when I first got they were all cassette tapes back then I know that I don't make cassette tapes anymore, but as well as what I was listening to do back then, and I completely get a brand. So anyway, he says, so I found your podcast due to the fact that a bunch of Bill sees talks are on YouTube. And there, I found his two appearances with you. Since then I have browsed around your list and enjoyed the other speaker. So let me say this, first of all, Bill see probably has about eight or so episodes on servers speak. And the reason I say that, because if you go to the website, so to speak, COMM And you click on the podcast, there's a little search feature, and you could actually put the word bill in there, and all of his episodes would pop up just to kind of make that a little bit easier for you. But nonetheless, he says, I'll be a loyal listener, john, and I will plan on continuing Oh, he's talking about a contribution. Like I said, if you're out there listening, and don't worry about that. But thank you though, Mr. Brad. He says, I'll plan on contributing for that's how many of the younger generation will probably find us I think you're right, Brad. He says, uh, we we here in Southern California. Wish you and your wife great success. And I thank you for your most valuable contributions to making sure the quote good news is always available. Peace, brother, Brad. D will Brad D. Thank you so much. That was very encouraging and peace back at you.

John M 1:16:49

Bro, Bridgette writes in and she says hi John M. Nice. She actually does live in Australia. I live in Australia, in the state of Queensland on the Gold Coast. Well, Crikey. Crikey. Isn't that the Turia? Crikey, right? I'm sorry, Bridget. I go off a little off the beaten path. Sometimes. She says I am a mom of three beautiful children, and the wife of a lovely man who has been by my side for over 20 years. I recently celebrated my 10th year of sobriety on the 10th of June 2021. Will God bless you, Bridget, and it was such a huge milestone. through the grace of God, I made it. And I honestly never knew that living a sober live for a decade wouldn't be possible for me. I found sober, sober speak through searching for podcasts list for those that focus on alcoholism in recovery. I enjoy your podcast very much. And thank you for devoting so much of your time and energy into producing the podcast for the benefit of many, a little about myself. I have OCD, which was diagnosed in my late 20s. I'm pausing there, Bridgette because I completely understand OCD. When I say I completely understand that. I grew up with a mom that was severely OCD and I you know, people kid around about me like being OCD because of, you know, I want everything in place and all that stuff. But there's a difference between being kind of kind of sort of OCD like I am, and actually be diagnosed with it. And I remember when I was a kid actually having to grow up with that, and the mental illness and our anorexia and everything that went around that. And it was just tough. So anyway, that's why I pause there when you say I have OCD, which was diagnosed in my late 20s. I'll go on. She says I used alcohol to self medicate to relieve my never ending anxiety. You know, I sometimes wonder if my mom would have been better off if she were drinking. You know, I just don't know, you know, because that thing was just killing her. I make killing her words going through her head all the time constantly checking everything. I completely get her she says Of course, alcohol only made it worse. Well, I guess my mom wouldn't have been better off. But once I realize, but once I realized this, it was too late. I grew up in a fairly unhappy home. My dad was a Vietnam Vietnam veteran and have PTSD and my mum suffers from bad anxiety also. So my dad was also he was in the Air Force, Bridget So anyway, very, very interesting here. Um, some of my earliest memories are of Worry in wishing to escape to a different live man, I can relate to that. The first time I ever drank alcohol was when I was 14. And it was like a bomb going off in my head. I loved it man bridge, you're telling my story. It was the best thing that I'd ever experienced. And I couldn't wait to do it again. I don't think I've ever drank normally. I always drank to get drunk. Wasn't that the point? Question work, man, girl, you are telling my story. I can relate to this. She says I could never control my drinking. I could never have just one drink. I'd have a sip of alcohol. If I have a sip of alcohol, the force within me to consume and consume and consume is overwhelming. And I would be unable to stop my life was a series of blackouts, severe hangovers, anxiety and obsession with alcohol. I was able to be abstinent during my first pregnancy, which gave me time to reflect on drinking and how it was how it tipped into being problematic. It was I was abstinent but because of my self medicating booze was gone. And a whole heap of mental illness issues bubbled up to the surface. And I was diagnosed with OCD.

John M 1:21:23

Once I had my baby, baby, I waged a battle with myself to be able to have a drink, but breastfeed and many times it would lose control, and then beat myself up because I drank too much, and then needed to feed the feed my baby and I couldn't. I became a master at timing, feeding around drinking, and I'm sorry to say there are. There are times I breastfed when I probably shouldn't have. my firstborn was born in 2007. In between 2007, June, June 10 2011, I was on a spiral downwards. With my drinking, I had no control. I was anxious. I was depressed. I drank alone, I drank a lot. I wanted to stop, but I couldn't. And I was mentally ill. In 2010, I found out I was pregnant with my second child. And this gift of time for me to be able to step back from drinking allowed me the opportunity to stop that I hadn't taken with my first I began to drink or I began to do the work of understanding what was happening in my brain. My daughter was born on the 18th of December 2010. And the first thing I did with that I did was plan when I would I plan when I was going to have a drink, I decided that I would only have one drink every now and then. And then considering I had not drank for nine months, I was going pretty well. I only drank maybe three or four times until June 10 of 2011. On this night, a group of my girlfriends and I went out for dinner, I drove my car there and the end with the intention of driving home. But it was stressful getting out of the house. And by the time I arrived at the restaurant, I was frazzled. Everyone was drinking and I thought to myself, I'll just have one famous last word right. The night ended with me in a blackout and getting home at 3am according to the taxi receipt, the next day I came to in the most horrific with the most horrific hangover, a screaming baby and a toddler who needed me and an overwhelming sense of utter despair. In that moment, I wanted to die. I literally wanted to cut my arms open and bleed out all over the anxiety, and now filled every cell of my being. It was that moment when I realized I could never ever drink again. It was that moment that I realized if I drank again, I would die. And it was at that day that I got sober and I have been ever and I have been sober ever since by the big capital letters grace of God. I didn't fit into the role of an alcoholic who is physically dependent. I was never a daily drinker, but I am an alcoholic. I find the medical community's rigid definition about an alcoholic as unhelpful because you don't need to have a physical dependency to be one. By the time you do. The road back is so steep and if medically intervention was made sooner. It could help so many more people I remember once I admitted to a psychologist that I thought I was an alcoholic because I was unable to control my drinking and had several dire consequences. As a result, he scoffed at me and said, You're not our you're not an alcoholic. I've worked with alcoholics and you don't have a physical dependency. Luckily, I was already sober at the time and doing the work. But I found his comments to be most unhelpful. Needless to say, I will never go back to him. I have listened to only one of your podcasts, Mimi f her story embraces and it echoes mine. I intend to listen to many more. And I am so thankful for finding your podcast. God bless you. warmest regards, Bridget are from Australia will thank you, Bridget. Oh, that was just lovely. You're a good writer too. I

John M 1:25:55

really appreciate you right Nan. That was quite quite lovely. And God bless you on your journey. And keep me up to date. And once again, congrats on your 10 years I everybody. That is the end of this particular episode. I take this one week at a time I will probably be back next week. But God bless you keep coming back at works at work if you work it and we will be talking to you soon. Bye Bye now.


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